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> Drop Eye in Arowanas
SilverAro
post May 1 2005, 05:38 PM
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Drop Eye(DE) is believed to be a genetic problem that causes the Arowana's Eyes to slant out, making it look like it's looking down. Many believe that it could be these factors that cause DE:

-Feeding Fatty Foods
-Feeding Foods that sink to the bottom of the tank
-Having a bottom that is bare allowing it to constantly look at it's reflection

Some keepers suggest to keep it in a Pond were all sides are covered and the only place to look is up. This is believed to force the Aro to look up and slowly recoup from DE.

But IMO, it is Genetic, and if it's in it's bloodline, it will get it. For example Silver Arowanas all tend to get this condition. Is it a coincidence? Prorably not, most likely the parentage of the Silvers all suffer from this condition. Black Aros for example are not likely to getting this condition, why is this? Most of them are wild caught or there not farmed nearly as long as Silver Arowanas have been farmed. DE also never appears in Jardinis because they are also either wild caught or not farmed as long as it's cousin. Asian Aros also seldomly get this.

There are many threads on this and i feel that making an "official" thread about DE will help alot of newbies. Anyone with any input please drop a line on this thread.

This post has been edited by SilverAro: May 1 2005, 05:45 PM
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NARC
post May 2 2005, 05:52 PM
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i agree that it's genetic. i remember many a thread a few years ago about putting a floating fishing bait thingy (forget the name, they're red and white floating balls) and other stuff in the tank and to not have any bottom dwellers in the tank to try to "cure" drop eye. i don't remember any of those remedies ever working.


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SilverAro
post May 2 2005, 07:42 PM
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Yeah ppl say to put ping pong balls into your tank. i've tried it myself. It doesnt work because after the first 5 mins the Aro recognizes it's not food and no longer takes interest in it.
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Bob saget
post May 11 2005, 10:30 PM
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I'm sure genetics have somthing to do with DE, but in the wild silver aros eat food that is 65% of the time out of the water and the rest of the time the food is still floating on the top. Anyways an aro in the common home aquarium doesnt jump for its food. And my aro can eat all day which hints that it is always searching for food. When he is hungry and no food is above he may look down. And in the home aquarium he may dislodge his eyes be looking down, doing somthing that its speices is not evoled to do. Possible theory along with genetics. But genetics are passed down so maybe this ^ is how the first Aro got drop eye. Just a thought.
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Cichlidgeek
post May 11 2005, 10:47 PM
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I would agree with you. However, you state that Asian arowanas seldom get this but of all the "arowanas" out there, the Asian ones are line-bred, in-bred, or captive-bred the most. Therefore, they should get it the most I would think.

Also, I have seen quite a lot of wild-collected silvers get it only after a short time in captivity. I am POSITIVE they were wild collected because they looked like the dead swimming when they arrive fresh from Brazil (ahhh, back in the days when I was transhipping!). If you saw these things you would think they went through a blender. Regardless, I think it has to do with lack of bottom cover in many tanks housing them.

Also, someone once told me that for such a large-growing fish, silver arowana are found in very shallow water. is this true? If so, perhaps they feel uncomfortable with other large fishe under them so much that they are always looking at them and develope this DE issue.

Thoughts???

This post has been edited by Cichlidgeek: May 11 2005, 10:48 PM
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WhiteLineRacer
post May 12 2005, 11:00 AM
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I am inclined to believe it's not genetic but a tank based problem.

I had a silver for a few years and a jardini, none got DE. I did however have a lot of ground cover and loads of bogwood that reached up out of the water, so maybe mine never developed this problem as they had to look forward too much so as not to bump into things.
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MuskyKiller
post May 12 2005, 04:18 PM
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I don't think so I had about 1" of gravel and rocks at the bottom of my tank and my aro still got it in one eye. I think it has to be some sort of genetic abnormality through captive breeding. I don't think there is any "simple" solution or way of prevention. Without keeping a wild aro myself, I cannot attest to whether they are prone or not.


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SilverAro
post May 12 2005, 04:31 PM
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Like i said, TONS of theories why DE appears in Aros. Asian Aros are more expensive fish and no famr wants to known for having adult fish that get DE. No one would buy from them. I'm sure there's some control and plucking of the Aros in there breeding pond with Asian Aros. Silvers are cheap, they'll never do something like. I personally would pay 4 times more for a Silver with good parentage(No DE, Protruding Lower Jaw Etc.).

White Line Racer, that sounds like an impressive set up. Maybe it had to play some role in it not getting DE, it might just be the luck of the draw, if you happen to grow out a few more Silvers through this setup and they all don't have DE, please update us.

Tikariman i've grown out tons of Silvers through out diffrent conditions. I've tried gravel, painting the bottom(on the outside) of the tank, no tank mates, with tank mates, all of them just seem to start developing it.
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WhiteLineRacer
post May 13 2005, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE(SilverAro @ May 12 2005, 09:31 PM)
Like i said, TONS of theories why DE appears in Aros. Asian Aros are more expensive fish and no famr wants to known for having adult fish that get DE. No one would buy from them. I'm sure there's some control and plucking of the Aros in there breeding pond with Asian Aros. Silvers are cheap, they'll never do something like. I personally would pay 4 times more for a Silver with good parentage(No DE, Protruding Lower Jaw Etc.).

White Line Racer, that sounds like an impressive set up. Maybe it had to play some role in it not getting DE, it might just be the luck of the draw, if you happen to grow out a few more Silvers through this setup and they all don't have DE, please update us.

Tikariman i've grown out tons of Silvers through out diffrent conditions. I've tried gravel, painting the bottom(on the outside) of the tank, no tank mates, with tank mates, all of them just seem to start developing it.
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I may get another but doubt it as the tanks got 2 x spotted gar and 2x pleurophthalma going in it. May get a bit crowded for 5 large fish. My next Aro will probably be a RTG after seeing T1KARMANN's lovely one. biggrin.gif
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aro 1 na
post May 13 2005, 11:17 AM
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I believe that DE may be a genetic problem however I also believe that it can be treated if caught early. I know that in asians atleast if a fish starts to develope dropeye, covering the sides of the tank for an extended period of time, (usually 6 months or so), the DE goes aways. I would assume that this would be the same in silver aros and will soon be testing this if mine developes DE. I think most people let the DE develope too much before they try to treat it and scar tissue develops behind the eye. Or they do not leave the sides of the tank covered completely for a long enough period of time(that means no peeking ever). Just my two cents as I have tried this in the past and it has worked for me.

As a side note LPJ is much more difficult to treat.
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fishing4exotics
post Jun 10 2005, 05:22 PM
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I talked to people who have cured DE by covering all the sides of the arow's tank. It works! Not saying the genetic theory is wrong, but I tend to lean on the theory that environmental factors are the main cause of DE.
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umoa
post Jun 10 2005, 05:47 PM
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idunno. my friends aro was in a tank with no bare bottom but it still got drop eye.


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aro 1 na
post Jun 10 2005, 09:46 PM
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It's not so much the bare bottom, but the looking out the sides of the tank. In the wild they constantly look up as they are surface feeders. In the aquarium they get distracted by things outside the tank so they are looking sideways or down. But as with anything it's just a theory and until extensive tests are done we'll just have to stick by our own home remedies.
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ashdavid
post Jun 25 2005, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE(SilverAro @ May 12 2005, 04:31 PM)
Like i said, TONS of theories why DE appears in Aros. Asian Aros are more expensive fish and no famr wants to known for having adult fish that get DE. No one would buy from them. I'm sure there's some control and plucking of the Aros in there breeding pond with Asian Aros. Silvers are cheap, they'll never do something like. I personally would pay 4 times more for a Silver with good parentage(No DE, Protruding Lower Jaw Etc.).

White Line Racer, that sounds like an impressive set up. Maybe it had to play some role in it not getting DE, it might just be the luck of the draw, if you happen to grow out a few more Silvers through this setup and they all don't have DE, please update us.

Tikariman i've grown out tons of Silvers through out diffrent conditions. I've tried gravel, painting the bottom(on the outside) of the tank, no tank mates, with tank mates, all of them just seem to start developing it.
*



It is not a genetic problem, it is an enviromental problem. Wild silver arowanas do get this problem, and I have seen many wild caught silvers of many different sizes imported without drop eye and after being placed in fish tanks ,90% of them develope this condition. It is almost certainly has a lot to do with the fact that in an artifical enviroment these fish tend to look down all the time, and as time progress fats tend to build up behind the eye. Diet may play a small part in this process but would be very insignificant.



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NARC
post Jun 25 2005, 09:28 AM
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i always thought it was genetic, but i'm open to discussion. i've never heard of a black aro getting it. i grew one out to two feet in a 180/ 280 (at different times). are they just less apt to get it or what?


i am no longer an active part of the band helltrash but still support them, you should too. i'm starting a new local project and will whore that up in due time. ~n

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komodobeam
post Jun 26 2005, 11:26 PM
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when covering the sides of the tank, are you supposed to cover EVERY side, or every one except the front viewing glass? Does leaving the front glass uncovered defeat the purpose of covering the rest of the tank?
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fishing4exotics
post Jun 27 2005, 02:48 AM
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Every side.
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aro 1 na
post Jun 27 2005, 11:43 PM
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every side but i find leaving a small strip at the top forces them to look out that small opening which could help to pull the eyes up a little.
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SilverAro
post Jun 27 2005, 11:54 PM
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Everyone is entitled tot there opinions.

But theres proof that suggests it is a genetic factor. Why is it when a Jardini kept under the same condition as a Silver Aro never get this problem?

Why do some Asian Aros get this whiles other dont? And this is also being kept under the same conditions.

I agree that MAYBE enviroment does play a small role, but not a big enough, or even close to the genetic factors of it. All Silvers are more prone to this then any other Aro no matter how you put it, there has to be something else besides the enviromenet that's playing a role.
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Pim
post Jun 28 2005, 04:17 PM
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Strangely enough, my silver aro only has DE on one side?


i have one fish two fish four fish three....
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